First question is actually quite general. So how was your experience with interactive data analysis or interactive data transformations?

M14  2:05:28  
I feel it is good for this particular use case, at least. But selections part I felt it's rough around the edges. Because, let's say if there are many cluttered points around the same pen, with the selection, I can't find green nail the selection exam. So apart from that point, if there are anomalies or those sort of things, it's extremely helpful. But if I want to get a fine grained classification, I would say this is a little bit stressful. So

Kiran Gadhave  2:05:54  
how would you say like, what would help the selection? You had? Like, what will help you have more confidence in this election? Like, basically, like being able to cite what the exact portrait should be?

M14  2:06:09  
Yeah, I think, some kind of latching I would say, like, let's say fits in here and interior. Exactly, it's just latches to the grid edge. Some kind of mechanism like that will help because you have to answer more often than not selections happen at the edges, not like finding that

Kiran Gadhave  2:06:26  
sweetness.

M14  2:06:30  
So So now also, I would like to, once I select something, if it shows the selection boundary, it is where the point is, instead of just the boundary should also like a show a coordinates of the

Kiran Gadhave  2:06:46  
thing will also help that mentions. So right now, like there is just a summary view, which like the exact borders, but you probably want it on the plot itself. Yeah, that makes sense. So okay, so for the interactive, but you basically did the notebook after like a short tutorial, and you never really have. So basically, you'll probably never use something like this in Jupiter. So basically, after the short tutorial, you get to the task, how was the learning curve?

M14  2:07:19  
It's pretty simple.

Kiran Gadhave  2:07:22  
And was like, We're after the tutorial. Was it intuitive to quickly? Because I assume, I don't know if you remember everything? Or was it? Did you have to look for something which you didn't remember, but it was easy to find hard to find.

M14  2:07:35  
It's pretty easy to find. So as someone who uses user interfaces, it should be pretty trivial to do these things. Okay. So

Kiran Gadhave  2:07:44  
now, again, coming back to like our first discussion, I want to expand it a bit. So we'll go through like, I'll ask you some top level tasks that we did, and I want you to think about so. So you know, which modality did you feel more efficient in? Where did you feel you know, I did it with both. But I would still prefer writing code, I will still, I'll just prefer using GUI for this. So for the first type of tasks we did were do color manipulation, like renaming, deleting, changing the categories, I

M14  2:08:17  
would say the interactive part was really easy.

Kiran Gadhave  2:08:21  
And for so for tussling those, so as you too, you know, you are used to do a lot of them. So what were some of the issues that you always run into, in, like when you're basically using Pandas, remembering the code for that matter? So syntax syntax, yeah. Okay, so what about the, so the next high level category was editing individual values? So if you're looking for something, just changing the values,

M14  2:08:53  
that I think I will prefer pandas always. That's obviously because if I'm working on a large data set, it's never easy to individually manipulate the cells. And even the search is not completely efficient. It's yesterday's substances, like you mentioned. Took a time for me to figure out like, how many my there are many values appearing? Because it makes sense, right? It's just a substring. Search, obviously, is showing what it's intended to do. But yeah, searching in a large space, it's definitely not an ideal thing.

Kiran Gadhave  2:09:26  
So would you. So would you be more likely to use the interactive table for tasks like this? If there was, let's say, a regex. Search and Replace Search and Replace kind of functionality? Like you have usually Word documents and stuff? Yeah, yeah. Search and Replace would definitely. Okay. Because you're basically with larger us individually. It takes a long time. Yeah. Good. And what about tasks where you had to remove data points, you know, are the first failure to find data points which are to be removed and that avoid them.

M14  2:10:05  
In this case, it was pretty easy. using the internet to blog about I'm not sure on enlarge space, let's say where there are points which are cluttered together, it's I think, removing those specifically, it should be harder. So I would prefer writing code for that, because I know exactly what I'm doing. So

Kiran Gadhave  2:10:23  
again, then goes back to that. So we'll be brushing like improved brushing mechanism with latching or like showing exact coordinates,

M14  2:10:32  
that would work on small tables, I would say, but not on very large scale tables. Let's say if, in my personal experience, if we were using a column called time to know, again, the trade order got placed, and the accuracy of that is still nanoseconds. So in that kind of thing, you will get a ton of values in a nanosecond space. And if you're showing eight or nine digits on interactive plot, then kind of interrupts your view of the plot. Right? So yeah, in those cases, I would say it's not helpful. But yeah, definitely improve the current performance if you show some kind of moderate values. But I would say in terms of selection, I'm still prefer pandas, because I know exactly what I'm doing, instead of relying on manual things. Let's say even if I want to write a simple filter with, let's say, if it remove all the values, which are less than 10, so I just have to write one line of code for them. That's simple. Now I have to select all the values right from the edge till that point, so that becomes, again, a clumsy matter.

Kiran Gadhave  2:11:34  
Yeah. That makes sense. And what about the final task categories that we did, which was with categorizing the data? Very basically selected points and assign a category.

M14  2:11:49  
certain categories are pretty easy intellectually, but I'm not sure how that would be. That would scale again. So if there are two or three categories, obviously, it's very simple to do it interactively. But if there are, like, let's say, 20 different categories, which you have to assign, then I would write code for that pretty simple function, right?

Kiran Gadhave  2:12:09  
So how do you? So basically, question is, you know, given a data set, how would you come up with which, which points at which category? So you as you usually start with a plot of

M14  2:12:25  
first I would visualize the data, which I have. And generally, I would have a good idea what I'm trying to do on the dataset. So just visualize it and see what what are the things which are necessary on this dataset? Mostly, the thing I would consider is the scale and the use of doing it, if there are tasks like renaming the columns or selecting grouping into them binary categories, those things I would obviously jump on the interactive bandwagon. So yeah, but if I have to do a complicated stuff, or search or filter through large scale values and SN right, then then I would write preferable also, if there are any hard boundaries, which I have to follow in terms of selection and filtering, then I definitely prefer writing code because I would be 100% sure that this would work.

Kiran Gadhave  2:13:11  
Yeah. That makes sense. So that brings me to like, so again, to go back discussing the the higher level tasks are not task but like more like the workflows. So there will be a percentage to access starts with a data frame, and then either goes interactive chart or interactive table. And the output, again, is a data frame. So what are your thoughts on a workflow where you basically start with let's say something interactive, you realize how to do something really exact. Create a data frame, write to whatever you want to do, exactly. And then again, create another interactive table from that process, trigger frame, and then you don't go back to doing whatever you're doing interactively. So this back and forth and being able to move between these two modalities in a notebook, so whatever, but I just like to know your thoughts on that.

M14  2:14:05  
That's actually pretty helpful. One thing I really liked about is version control, which shows the history of all operations which you showed, and also saves the changes which are made into a data frame. So if I'm working on a really large project, where I have to do multiple manipulations, if there are some easy manipulations in between, I would obviously skip that part and do it interactively. A combination of these two is definitely extremely helpful.

Kiran Gadhave  2:14:31  
Have you done interactive analysis before like Tableau Excel No,

M14  2:14:35  
in Mathematica have done some and have you been

Kiran Gadhave  2:14:38  
in situations where you have to do basically this, so I am not sure if Mathematica lecture Mathematica does code as well, right? Yeah. So and it does interactive analysis as well. You can interact

M14  2:14:50  
with the visualizations, but you can store them as values and then use it. So

Kiran Gadhave  2:14:56  
basically the same as Altair was like yeah, just have a selection. But

M14  2:15:00  
yeah, you can do some manual pregnancy, but you can't store it in a variable. Right?

Kiran Gadhave  2:15:04  
So yeah, basically, I wanted to see if you have been in a situation where you know, you do something in an interactive tool. And now you need to use that in code. Because like the usual workflow that people do is Tableau, right? They use Tableau, you see something you like, process it with Tableau, you can delete stuff. But then you have to make a CSV and load it in Jupiter to write code again, or like, load it in our notebook to write code again. Yeah, there is no way to write code. There's not as what are some things that some experience with something like that? Okay. So really, would you use something like persist in future? Yes, sure. Yeah. And then again, so since you use interactive charts before, do you find the interactive tables or interactive charts valuable? Yes, I do. And like, so like how, in what sense? Do you find them valuable for resort?

M14  2:16:11  
Interactive? So I believe data visualization only works if you're trying to find something. It's not just to show something. Yeah. So in order to find something, and once you visualize the thing and your perception of the data changes, I don't want to redo the things again and again in different images. But instead of if I could manipulate the image there itself and go with my flow, then that would be helpful. That's what I feel. Okay. Yeah.

Kiran Gadhave  2:16:37  
Yeah, my last question again, just like just open ended, anything else you want to comment on?

M14  2:16:43  
No, no, nothing specific yet.

Kiran Gadhave  2:16:46  
Then I think I'll just stop recording. Thank you. Thank you.

